BIBLE DIFFICULTY: GOD, LOVE, AND JEALOUSY

Posted on October 19th, 2011 by Agathos Ministries

‎1 John 4:8: “God is love.” 1 Corinthians 13:4: “Love is not jealous.” Exodus 20:5: “I, the Lord thy God, am a jealous God.” Reconcile…..

It’s stuff like this in the Bible that I love - the apparent contradiction - the paradoxes that require some thought and some trust in the document.
It is also one of those things that points to the Bible not being a mere human-made document. If some guys sat around a table in the late 300s to decide what would go in the Bible and what it would say… why would they leave this kind of stuff in there? It would make things so much easier for a man-made religion to keep it simplistic.
But they have books written in antiquity that they include in their entirety even though it creates difficulties. I love the difficulties. It makes me stretch and grow as a human being and as a Christian.
Starting with the New Testament, and then explaining the Old. God is Love, true, but God is not “nothing but Love.” To just leave it at that would make God more like an elemental force of Love, not a real being. God IS Love in that it is SO much a part of His nature that He is the very definition of Love, but there is so much more to Him than just that. That said…
Love is not jealous. Sure, people who are in love get jealous, but the jealousy is not love, and love is not the jealousy. It is not “the more insanely jealous I get over the stupidest things, the more I love you” nor “the more I love you the more insanely jealous over the stupidest things I must get.” They are two separate things. Jealousy arises because of a lack of security in the relationship - given the terms of the relationship.
Lack of security comes in two basic forms. One is that you are basically dealing with an insecure person who feels a lack of security over pretty much anything - hopefully at least things that have rational threat to the relationship - but really insecure people don’t need even that.
The second form of not being secure in a relationship is when your partner really gives you a reason to not be secure! If a man admires a woman not his wife for her genuine beauty, that should not be a threat to his marriage. But when he actually starts a growing love relationship with a woman outside his marriage, when he starts to consider leaving his wife for this other woman, then his wife no longer has security in her marriage. It IS being threatened, and she would feel jealous not because she is just an insecure woman, but because there is a serious and legitimate threat to her marriage. Make sense?
So with that, let’s go to God. God in and of Himself is totally secure. However, the relationship, like our example above, has two sides - God and (in this case) Israel. Israel has free will. Israel could choose to not maintain her relationship with God. For the God-Israel relationship to be secure, both must commit, and God did. In Exodus, it is talking about the commandment of have just God as God, not as one of many gods, and not making any graven images (which were worshipped as though they were the god or an avatar in many cases, not just a representation or symbol).
In here, God is warning that the security of the deal depends upon Israel keeping the commandment to be faithful to God. He warns them that He will be jealous if Israel removes the security of the relationship by going to other gods. In God’s case, it is the protectiveness of knowing that His bride (as Israel is often portrayed) should stick with the True God and not some made up god - a Real God who wants the best for her, not some made up god that will let her do self-destructive things in the name of religion.
So here, jealousy does have to do with insecurity. Love is Not Jealous and God is Not Jealous because of a deficiency in character we call “being insecure.” But jealousy born of a relationship not being secure, and God being jealous FOR us (He knows WE are the ones who suffer by going after other gods), that God IS.
Verses reconciled. Does that make sense?
“That’s how we roll at Agathos Ministries.”
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HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU HAVE POWER?

Posted on March 10th, 2010 by saconway

Question:HDYKYHP? How Do You Know You Have Power?
This is an important question.
It is worth answering.
Write down your answer.  If you’re following with the worksheet, there’s a space for your answer.
Be honest!
How do you know you have Power?
How do you know you are powerful?
How do you know you have significance?
For some people, they feel they have power when they can refuse to do things someone else says they should do, and they can do things other say they should not do.
For some, power is about being able to get what you want when you want it for no better reason than you want it.
Some feel power is about getting away with things.
That’s some people.
What about you?
What makes YOU feel powerful?
Answer: I feel powerful when…
Whatever your answer, it’s your answer.
You might have developed it with adult maturity, or you might have had it spontaneously arise as a child.
You might have acquired it by example, by experience, or simply by emotion.
Whatever it is, it is.
You may be proud of the real answer, or you could be a little ashamed at it.
It is important to know the real answer, though.
The real answer is where you’ll run any time you feel like you’re losing power.
The real answer is where you will go when you want to feel powerful.
My Answer: I feel powerful when I really, really want to do something wrong and there is nothing stopping me but my own sense of right and wrong, and I do not do it.
I feel especially powerful when there is something I really do not want to do, but I know I should, and nothing makes me do it but my, and I do it.
When I can hold to my code when, emotionally, I want nothing more than to break it, I know I have power.
My history shows that this really what I do when I need to feel powerful: I do something I should.
TILaaPPL: The Initiative List as a Personal Power List
7. Do It.
6. Do It and Report Periodically.
5. Do It and Report Immediately.
4. “I Intend To.”
3. Recommend
2. Ask
1. Wait Until Told
-0. Wait Until Told Twice
-1. Wait Until Told Three Times
-2. Wait Until Nagged
-3. Make Excuses
-4. Wait Until Punished
-5. Dragged Kicking and Screaming
-6. Do Not Do It
-7. Open Defiance, includes broken promises, lies, deceit, manipulation.
IM: P=n, N=(n+1)•4: Initiative Math: Positive equals number, Negative equals number plus one times four.
How Old Do You Have to Be…?
To use “-6 Power: Do Not Do It”?       Infant
To use “-7 Power: Open Defiance”? Toddler
If we go back to some people’s definition of “Power,” they think that Power is being able operate at -6 “Do Not Do It,” but infants can “Not Do It.”
To operate willfully requires a little more sophistication, which is toddler level maturity.
Toddlers can willfully declare “No!”
A great irony, is that many people feel they get power this way.
They feel that when they can do a sophisticated version of infant behavior or toddler behavior, that they are “Powerful.”
Impact of the Point System: TiPP: Trust in Personal Power
It takes Power to Keep Promises.
It takes Power to have Trust.
To say “I trust that this person will keep his promise so long as he feels like it” is not trust!
The Phileo Math Rules apply.
A memory is worth 1/8th of the experience.
Some people feel Powerful because they can do what they want or not do what they do not want, and Make Excuses.
So long as they at least use TE: True Excuses, they are operating from -3 Power (-16 points!).
What many of them do not realize is that WYL: When You Lie about your excuse, you’re actually using -7 Power.
You are saying “I have no true excuse, so I’ll lie.”
It’s the same as broken promises.
It’s words that do not match up with reality.
It’s dishonest, just as broken promises is a lack of integrity.
Even True Excuses are a declaration of a lack of power, though.
When you make an Excuse, you declare, TEHMPtM: “This Excuse has more Power Than Me.”
Sometimes that is true and very reasonable.
If my excuse for not being in town is because the airport was shut down, that’s an excuse.
I am saying that the airport being shut down is more powerful then my power to get here.
I think that is usually going to be understandable.
When I lie, I am saying “I have no excuse.”
It is saying “It takes nothing at all to be more powerful than me.”
When I make a flimsy excuse, I am saying “My power is flimsier than this excuse,” basically declaring my powerlessness to all.
How Old Do You Have to Be…?
To use “Level 1 Power: Wait Until Told”?  Old enough to UWYAT: Understand What You Are Told (and be able to do it).
To use “Level 4 Power: I Intend”? Old enough to MYOP: Make Your Own Plan (and be able to do it)
To use “Level 7 Power: Do It”?  Old enough to be R: Responsible
R:DWYStDWBT: Responsibility: Do What You’re Supposed to Do Without Being Told
Note that Level 7 Power is NOT to do it without being told because you know that if you do not do it, you’ll lose (or not get) what you do want or get what you do not want.
If you do what you do in a job primarily to avoid being fired, you’re operating from “Wait Until Punished.”
Wait Until Punished is being motivated only or primarily by TC&TS: The Carrot and The Stick
Operating from Level 7 Power takes Responsibility.
It is proven more strongly when you have an excuse, and you choose to not avail yourself of that excuse.
It shows “Not only am I responsible, I have more power in my responsibility than this excuse has the power to stop me.”
That’s why we are so persistently impressed with people who succeed despite great obstacles.

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“Christmas: A Staggering Story” and George Smoot on the design of the universe

Posted on December 9th, 2009 by Pastor Scot Conway

Nobel Prize Winning Astrophysicist George Smoot talks about the structure of the universe. His stunning photo of a portion of the sky with four stars and thousands of galaxies was the opening graphic for the first Christmas Sermon of the three sermon series preached by Pastor Scot Conway. Later in his talk, he has an absolutely stunning graphic of the structure of the Universe with a zoom in, zoom out and fly through beautifully rendered based upon astronomical observations and a lot of math. While this might seem a strange place to start a Christmas Sermon, it lead into one of the most powerful Christmas sermons ever…

The podcast is highly recommended! Christmas: A Staggering Story.

Visit the Agathos Ministries Podcast!

Visit the Agathos Ministries Podcast!

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COURTING: ESTABLISHING A PRECEDENT

Posted on December 2nd, 2009 by Agathos Ministries

A powerful use of Courting is establishing a precedent of Communication.  There are several aspects of this, many of which are reflected in this list.  You can probably think of more.

1. You discover each of your willingness to communicate.

Every relationship is going to run into problems, which means every relationship with need to develop solutions to those problems.  To do that as partners, you must communicate.  But if someone is not willing to do so, then that sabotages the partnership.  Problems end up left to one person to fix alone or that partner simply has to accept that there will never be a solution if it requires change on the part of the unwilling partner.  This is a critical thing to know before marriage.  Will the person communicate, or do they wait for an explosion?

2. You discover each of your abilities to communicate.

This is different.  Some people are willing to discuss things, but they lack the skill to effectively share.  This is a skill you want to develop and see developed before you get married.  Some people are willing to be “in the discussion” but they do not convey their thoughts, opinions, principles or philosophy in a way that others can understand.  Imagine being a child and your opinion never mattered, that basically your father told you that if he wanted your opinion, he’d give it to you, so you never learned to form or communicate… and now you have a partner that wants to discuss issues and come up with a joint solution.  It’s a skill!  And it’s an important skill to know that both you and your partner have before you get too far into a relationship.

3. You discover one another’s willingness to tackle hard questions.

This is huge.  Some people are more than happy to talk so long as you don’t get anywhere near anything hard, anything painful, anything sensitive, or anything they simply don’t feel like talking about.  Life will bring up hard questions from time to time, and if someone will not deal with them in Courting, then that’s a warning to both sides.  If you’re the one that doesn’t like to deal with hard questions, take a look and see if you have any difficult issues in your life you’ve avoided addressing.  If it’s your partner, just be aware that a marriage will have hard questions that come up, and if your partner doesn’t want to deal with them, that’s leaves problems that won’t ever be solved.

4. You discover one another’s willingness to have things written down.

Another huge one.  Some people are willing to have discussions so long as there is no record of what was discussed.  In the worst cases, they want to retain the right to claim that what they wish happened is what “really” happened, no matter how you “fantasize” it went.  If things are written down, then they have a very limited amount of time to make clarifications before they’ve ratified what was written down as what was said.

One man is so bad at this that he will not have a conversation if it’s recorded.  When his partner started journaling discussions immediately after, he demanded of her “What do you do?  Just make all that stuff up?”  He wanted the right to say whatever he wanted to say to get his way, then later claim whatever he wanted to claim about what was discussed, what was said, and what was agreed to.  When there was some record of it, he could not do that, so he hated it!  If that’s you, you need to consider why you don’t want things written down, a common justification is that it won’t be written down right – in which case, YOU write it down!

If it’s a prospective marriage partner, be aware that everything is likely to always be your fault and you are probably involved with someone who will make up reality as he or she goes along.  This means that you have no idea what others will be told, but whatever it is, it will make your partner appear saintly, and you and your friends will always be the villains in his or her stories.  You will be astonished at how many people will actually believe the stories, too.

5. You discover your mutual ability to discuss issues before they become issues.

Similar to dealing with hard issues, you find out how well you can seek out issues and pre-solve them.  It’s easy to ignore things until they come up, and then you’ll just expect it to go your way.              A key here is discussion about children.  Many things might be normal and expected right now, but what if you have children?  What religious beliefs or lack thereof will they be raised in?  If drinking is a big part of your social scene now, but will that continue?  If foul language is part of your normal vocabulary, will that continue?  None of these things are really issues until children are actually on the way, here, or even growing up, but these things are well worth considering beforehand.

6. You discover one another’s willingness to admit to things…

There are two aspects of this: 1.  Can your partner be trusted with this information?  (or will it be used as a weapon against you?)  and 2. Can you admit to unfortunate truths?

7. … and to accept things admitted to.

When your partner does admit to something, can you accept it?  Can you love despite it?  Or will it be an issue for you?  Some things are quite legitimately issues, and how will you address that issue?

Together, a sense of safety sharing and an ability to share are crucial to relationships unless secrets will be a normal part of the relationship.  Some professions mandate secrecy.  Doctors, lawyers, clergy and of course anyone who works with sensitive information will keep secrets due to confidentiality, but we’re talking about the kind of secrets in which one partner keeps a part of himself or herself secret from the other.

There is a distinction here that is important to make.  You can love someone who has some nasty things in the past, perhaps some stupid choices, some wild times, or even some criminal activity.  The question is not whether or not someone is perfect, no one is.  The question is what they learned from their experience.  Some people learn important, valuable lessons that can enhance your relationship because of the experiential wisdom they gained.  Some people do not learn anything other than they were “young and stupid” (young is mandatory, stupid is optional).  The worst look back on those days with fondness.

Imagine someone who had a nasty relationship with parents and siblings, but still thinks some of the torturous pranks he pulled were funny.  Do you want your children to absorb the idea that doing such things is fun?  Or someone who looks back on the wild days of youth as wonderful days of freedom… what might he do in the hear and now given a chance to relive some of those wild times?  The past is not the issue so much as what someone has learned from and done with that past.

8. You discover one another’s willingness to consider My Way and Your Way and craft a brand new, higher Our Way.

Very often, there is no right and wrong way, there are just different ways.  Two families of origin might have celebrated the holidays differently.  Maybe one family made Christmas Eve the big deal and opened all their presents before bedtime, and another did it all in the morning.  There is no moral imperative to mandate one over the other.  The question is simply: What will be Our Way?

9. You discover much about what is important to one another you may not have known…

You never know what will be a sticking point unless you either talk about it or it comes up.  Some things you would expect to be important even if you differ on how important.  But couples get caught by surprise sometimes, and it’s better to find out in discussion rather than because it turned into a fight.

One couple ran into a major issue: shampoo caps.  His pet peeve was someone using his shampoo and leaving the cap off.  To her, it was a stupid, little thing.  To him, if it was such a little thing, and she insisted on leaving the cap off the shampoo and letting it get turned into soapy water, she was saying that he wasn’t even worth putting the cap the shampoo when it was something important to him that was a significant matter of convenience when he was getting ready for work.  For her, it was a tiny thing to make a big issue out of, and he was acting as if a tiny cap was more important to him than she was.  Both admitted it was tiny, and both thought it was the other one being disrespectful.  The solution here is simple: his and her shampoo, and neither uses the other’s.

On the more positive, relationship elevating side of things, you can also find out things that are important to help your partner feel loved that might not ever occur to you.  For some, what seem like small gestures mean the world to them.  Some people like having their clothes ironed, and it means a lot to them to have ironed shirts or blouses in the closet.  For others, it might be a cup of coffee brought to bed while email is being checked and cleared in the morning.  Some might take special joy in a particular jam on English muffins, or a particular dessert.

By talking about a great many things, you can sometimes find interesting memories of good times that can spark deep feelings.  If you find out about those, you can use them to express your love to your partner in ways you might not otherwise think of on your own.  Very often, the things that touch our hearts the most are those special things unique to us, and such uniqueness is not easily guessed at.  But it was be revealed in good conversation.

10. … and what is not important you may have assumed was important.

The opposite happens, too.  We may assume something is important to our partner, but it isn’t.  We might have made the assumption because of our previous romantic experience, or our family or origin, or even just legitimate, statistically true stereotypes about men and women.  But that doesn’t mean it is necessarily important to this particular individual.  If something is a particular sacrifice to you, and you discover it is not actually valued by your partner, then you can stop making that sacrifice and focus your love-investment in things that are truly important to your partner.

… and more…

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PROBLEM: SEPARATION SOLUTION

Posted on August 12th, 2009 by Agathos Ministries

Many churches advocate “Separation rather than Divorce.” Agathos has a problem with this. Their idea is relatively simple: God Hates Divorce (a snippet from Malachi 2:16), so they see Separation as the Solution to serious problem.

Part of the problem stems from their idea that God only allows divorce in the case of adultery (based on Matthew 19) or abandonment by a non-believer (based on 1 Corinthians 7). A challenge they face is the rather obvious “What about abuse?” and other, lesser aspects of problems that make marriage a miserable imprisonment for the least selfish in a couple.

On the other hand, some churches take Separation much more casually. Some advocate using it as a tool to enforce personal standards. One minister says that if a husband insists on looking at pornography, the wife should walk out and not come back until he agrees to do something about the problem. Something as serious as separation, to him, is a key tool for a woman to get a man to do what she has decided he should do.

There are a lot of big problems with this.

First, there are some interpretation issues. 1 Corinthians 7 specifically talks about separation. The word commonly translated “divorce” in Malachi 2:16 is “putting away,” or “separation.” So using “separation” instead of “divorce” does not solve the problem of “obeying scripture.”

Second, there are some serious sin issues. The Bible lists a handful of fundamental duties of husbands to wives and wives to husbands. While you are separated, most of these duties b ecome impossible. Thus, in separation, one finds “sin, sin, sin, sin, and sin.”

Third, there are vow issues. There are a wide number of things we promise to do when we get married. We call them “vows” but many people have no recollection of their promises. Many churches treat the vows as though all they include is “forsaking all others” and “’til death do we part” (with their interpretation of that). In the weddings I do, there’s more than that. This means that there are more “missing the mark” happening with separation.

So even-if divorce is a sin, it’s one sin. Indefinite separation leaves a person in the marital status in which all the obligations still exist. Therefore, if you stay separated, you may avoid the “sin of divorce” by assuming guilt for sin-sin-sin-sin-sin-sin and sin – depending upon your count of obligations of husbands and wives.

AGATHOS VIEW

God’s Real Rules on Divorce and Remarriage is our full exploration of the issue. We do not spend much time in the Separation Solution in the program, though.

We believe that Separation IS a Solution for two things. 1. Pending Divorce. 2. Pending Reconciliation. But Separation is not a permanent solution – it’s a transition phase on the way to getting back together or on the way to legally recognizing that the marriage is already torn asunder.

Standard: You Separate Over What You Would Divorce Over. If you would not divorce over an issue, do not separate it. Do not even threaten the relationship over it. If you have come to the point of Separation, you can Separate and see if you can fix the problem, or you can Separate and pursue Divorce.

If you find a problem is something you will not live with and your spouse says that he or she will not change (or indicates this by his/her behavior), then the decision is already made. Divorce.

If your partner truly intends to work on the issue(s), then you can give as much time as seems reasonable under the circumstances. You may also stay separated until you see enough progress to have reason to trust it. You may not want to give any chance or any time in the case of serious abuse or such a longstanding pattern of behavior that there is no longer any reasonable way to expect real change.

Or you can Divorce (or file) and still see if you can resolve the problem. One husband would do nothing to have a relationship or save his marriage, and, finally, when the Divorce was being filed, he was ready for counseling. The Divorce moved forward while they saw the counselor together – but he did not do the assigned exercises, and after four months, she gave up. He later claimed to have done “everything” – which only cemented one of the key reasons she was divorcing him – incessant lying. Had he done the exercises and worked to develop a relationship, he would probably still be married. Earlier, she asked for next to nothing, but he refused. If you look at a list of emotional abuse, 90% of the list is how he behaved.

YOU DO YOUR PART

Another Agathos Idiosyncrasy is that we believe the marriage obligations and vows ought to be enforceable. First, we should enforce them on ourselves. The wife in question in the story above did her part – all of it – despite the recommendation of an MFT to violate Scripture and break her vows as a tool to manipulate him. Second, Communication (not Confrontation) is key. Make sure you have effectively communicated your expectations (after you make sure you are being reasonable).

We believe You Do Your Part. If you do your part, then you know when you divorce that you do so from a position of innocence. If you are breaking the vows just as much as your spouse, then=2 0you would be divorcing from a position of guilt.

A collateral benefit is that any subsequent partner will know that you can be trusted to deliver what you promise. So whether “this one” does or does not appreciate what you do is irrelevant. Someone else will appreciate it.

GOD SAYS: DIVORCE FOR CAUSE

God’s Rule is Divorce for Cause. Deuteronomy 24:1 and Ex odus 21:10-11 lay out some ground rules. Jeremiah 3:8 shows that God used His own Divorce Rule. The whole teaching (which is abbreviated) is 7 lessons, with another 7 lessons on The Deal Principle (the Agathos application of God’s rules).

A full exploration could easily be a three unit college course.

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God’s Real Rules

Posted on January 17th, 2009 by Agathos Ministries

Gods Real Rules on Divorce and Remarriage

God’s Real Rules on Divorce and Remarriage is the definitive work on the subject from Agathos Ministires. In the audio CDs, explore Old Testament Scripture, Old Testament Caselaw, and see that God, Himself, Divorced. Learn the context of Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7. In the Bonus Material (on the MP3 disk) learn about “The Deal Principle” and how to use it. The Deal Principle is the Agathos Application of the lessons learned from the Bible and God’s Real Rules. 7 audio CDs, MP3 disk with all 7 lessons and 7 additional lessons on The Deal Principle.

The Problem with the Separation Solution

Visit the Tithes and Offerings page to order today!

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A Church for One in Ten

Posted on December 4th, 2008 by Agathos Ministries

A Church for One in Ten
9 in 10 would be better served by a more conventional church.
Agathos is anything but conventional.


More Details Below…

Agathos is known for strong support for Manly Masculinity and Powerful, Free Femininity.

Agathos (a-GAH-thos)
“Be Good. Do Good”
“Agathos” is a Greek word. More precisely it means:
Something that is Good in its nature and beneficial in its Effect.

Agathos Ministries
Sunday Worship and Seminar Sermon*
9:45am to 10:45am

Sunday School Hour
(Adult Class, Children Class)
11:00am to Noon

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Sermon Podcasts

*Agathos Ministries Sermons are as much Seminar as Sermon. This means that the Sermons contain useful, practical information you can use in your day to day life. This principle flows from Ephesians 4:12, “For the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry.” For us, we teach practical insights and skills that will help people help others.

A FEW CONTROVERSIAL BELIEFS

1. The Deal Principle: God’s Real Rule on Divorce and Remarriage is that Divorce For Grounds is permitted. The couple decides The Deal, and the couple decides The Deal Breakers. A legally Divorced person may Remarry. The commitment is to the relationship, not just the status. LEARN MORE

2. Women are to be honored and respected, unleashed in their potential for leadership, accomplishment, and being all that God made them able to be. Women are not restricted in their leadership positions in the Church. If men have a problem with over-attraction to feminine beauty, it is the job of the men to mature, NOT the job of women to cover up.

3. Men are to be selfless leaders, and no man should expect even his wife to submit to him if he is not leading selflessly. Men appreciate feminine beauty, and male sexuality is a gift from God that needs to be matured and trained, not denied nor suppressed.

4. Genesis 1:1 Principle and the Law of Harmony: God did a magnificent job designing and engineering the Universe and building laws into it, including mathematics and physics. If we violate those laws, God, as a general rule, will decline to violate the laws of Cause and Effect to do a miracle. He does not say yes to “Daddy do my homework for me” prayers.

5. Agathos believes in categories of Sin, the worst of which is “Sins of Malice.” Sins of Malice are those sins that cause harm to others. They include violence, gossip, judgmentalism, and condemnation. This is made worse when facts are distorted to do so. Sins of Selfishness are those sins that only hurt the one doing it. Sins of Connection are those sins that are motivated by a desire to connect. Agathos believes that the worst sins are those that hurt others, and we concern ourselves with those the most.

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